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How many hours a day do you spend on *paid* work? (self.freelance)
submitted 1 year ago by daretoeatapeach
As a new freelancer, I'm constantly fretting about the time I spend doing dishes, exercising, searching for new clients, improving my website---basically anything that doesn't actually pay my bills. Yet I know that all of these things are necessary. On average, how many hours a day do you spend on the paid work for your clients? (It may also be helpful to say what kind of freelance work you do)
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Anywhere from 0 to 10, usually about 4-6. I don't work full time (by choice).
[–]bishop1847 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I work about 4 hours a day (8 pomodoros). The benefits of working distraction free are huge: I can get more done in a smaller period of time.
This let's me focus the rest of the day on my product, which is my freelancing escape plan :-)
[–]trippingupstairs 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I consider 5 hours of paid work a full day. I'm a freelance editor, so the time I'm paid for is time that I'm reading/typing/editing. Eight hours would be pretty exhausting. Many full-time jobs include a good amount of "downtime" when you're not working as intensely (email, talking on the phone, etc.) so I think fewer hours of actual work for a freelancer is comparable to a full day in an in-house job.
[–]polyfractal 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Fulltime freelance web-dev, started about a month ago. I've been averaging about 25-30 hours a week split between two clients. I work on-site for one client, so I bill for the whole time that I'm on site (unless I'm obviously taking a break and screwing around on the internet).
I bill for the whole time because being on-site effectively keeps me from working with other clients, and therefore I consider the whole time there billable.
I work from home with my other client, and typically work ~4 hours a day for them (two or three days a week). I probably produce roughly the same amount of work, but I am quicker to turn off the timer since I'll take a "wash dishes" or "go to grocery" break more often.
For me, part of the perks of freelancing is having the freedom to go to the grocery at 1pm, or take a nap, or whatever.
[–]michaelbuddy 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
'Bout four or five a day lately by choice. I love helping people out but I'm just not all that motivated to sit in a chair all day. I picked the wrong career in a way. If I could manage I'd always work that few of hours and pick up some extra money doing something on my feet. Like filming or taking photos or woodworking. it's tough to find that life balance but I aim to even if I make less money. I didn't like my personality being in the same office everyday. Makes me turn evil. Winter and no daylight makes it triple worse.
[–]onyxrev 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
Web developer here. Last week I did 45 hours of billable time. That's with me punching out to grab a cup of coffee or take a leak, which obviously a full-time employer would usually let roll into your hours. Almost all of these hours are between noon and 4AM ;)
I also usually spend an hour a day doing sales (Craigslist, emails, phone calls). And I migrate when I work, so I spend probably another hour a day on my bike between coffee shops. Spend $20 on coffee/food in the process easy but I go crazy without the change of scenery.
[–]upsidedownfaceman 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
How much do you bill for your time? Just wondering if it would 'cost' more to be able to work in coffee shops as opposed to a standard 9-5 corporate job.
[–]onyxrev 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Between $60-90/hr depending on volume and the type of client. It takes a lot of discipline and lost projects to keep rates up but its worth it as you get better clients out of it.
Wow that's amazing. How long did it take you to get to that point to bill that much per hour? What kind of development do you do?
When I quit my full-time job in November and wasn't making anywhere near this much hourly but was working for a startup not a big company.
I decided that if I was going to do freelance I would just charge a lot more, so I held firm on price until I found clients who could pay it. That didn't take too long, although I had to say no to a lot of people. Surprisingly those clients aren't necessarily big companies but small businesses who value top-quality work. Once I demonstrated that I was worth the rate in terms of the quality and amount of work I put out, clients started offering me more hours and almost all of them offered me full-time positions that I turned down.
We're just in such a tech boom right now that I can afford to be picky, but that won't always be true. Hopefully when the tide turns I will have enough existing relationships to persist.
Another important distinction is that I'm doing application development, writing things from scratch rather than just deploying a Wordpress site: heavy-client (JavascriptMVC, etc), Rails, and Node.js work with a healthy amount of HTML/CSS/Design thrown in.
Right now I'm working on a couple of projects including my first paid open-source thing, a voting app for initiatives: https://github.com/demofound/NCID-Voting
Kinda fun to be able to link to something in-progress.
Keep in mind that there are devs out there charging $150/hr easy...
[–]ultrafresh 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
That's an interesting concept. I don't think I'll ever go full-time freelance, but I love the idea of going someplace new. Some cost in coffee and food is worth it as I'm sure your mind is renewed.
[–]onyxrev 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yeah, it helps me feel human, being out in the world.
[–]doterobcn 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
9-18 full time job (i've been working as a freelancer for more than 5 years for them) 18-19 Other jobs 21.30 - 02.30 - Other jobs
[–]Thinks_Like_A_Man 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Something I learned a long time ago, when you are doing something to bring in new business you are making money. It's like planting crops. If you do it regularly, you won't have to worry if many of them fail because at the end of the year, you will have plenty to harvest.
[–]daretoeatapeach[S] 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
I'm not suggesting that seed-planting lacks value. I just need some guidelines as a new freelancer to figure out if I'm doing enough paid work. The casting of seeds will always be present, on top of the work, whether the work is four hours a day or eight.
[–]pyxlated 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Freelance illustrator. About eight or nine hours. I treat it like any other job, so I'm careful not to angst myself into over-working, because I've learned that doing so always ends up impacting the quality of the work I put out.
[–]daretoeatapeach[S] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
If you are doing even eight hours of paid work, and then must spend several more hours looking for work, and none of this is counting stuff you do that isn't paid (purchasing business cards or designing your letterhead, etc.) I think it's safe to say you are over-working.
[–]magnetic_couch 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
As a translator, work comes in infrequently and usually short notice with a short deadline. In which case I work until I finish. Ideally, this is no more than 8 hours a day.
When I was working on "open" deadlines (large volume projects with weekly deadlines but no volume quota) I often worked 9-10 hours a day. Mainly due to the fact that I'm paid by volume.
Preferably, I like to work 5-6 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. I prefer having free time everyday where I can get other things done than having work and off days.
Holy crap! You guys are working a lot more hours than I am. Glad I asked!
[–]eyecite 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
You get what you put in.
[–]salubrium 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I worked 9am-12am yesterday with a 1.5hr break for dinner. I clocked 6hrs of paid time. Far too much of my time is spent responding to emails, answering calls, replying to people in Skype or Gmail chat, putting proposal's together. I also have a full time contractor, so managing him, pushing work to him etc. I don't event get time to do dishes, excercise or improving my website. I certainly need to bring my hours back to a reasonable level. It's a growing pains thing. I'm very wary of employing too many people too early.
[–]onyxrev 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
You've gotta bill for that stuff if you are going to survive. I recommend on projects billing for 'meetings', which can be emails, calls, etc. Also bill for a bucket of 'maintenance', depending on your industry. For me it's web development so I usually bill for 5 hours of bug fixes as maintenance. If they use all five hours we recharge the bucket with another 5. If they don't they roll over. In reality they never roll over. So that way you aren't left swimming in unbilled work and the client feels that they have a sense for their obligations.
[–]acpawlek 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
I call it client discovery. Finding out what the client ACTUALLY wants takes time, on their dime.
Yeah, I do bill for a lot of phone calls as it is. My perspective is, if I'm adding value to your business, whether it's by conversation or email then you're going to get charged for it. The other issue is lot's of 2-10 minute stuff involving lots of task switching, which is a big loss. I'm working towards getting people on maintenance plans like yourself, so that I can balance it out. People on higher maintenance plans get a slightly cheaper rate but also a better response time. As I said, it's a bit of growing pains and trying to get everything in place while handling the extra influx of work but I appreciate the input regardless.
[–]ultrafresh 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
If it's only a minute or two, it's hardly worth it, but I have OfficeTime on my iPad (I'm sure something similar is available for Android). I have the 3 or 4 clients that I'm working on listed. When I start responding to an email, I hit Start, and when I finish, I hit Stop. I do that for everything.
So, while I might end up billing them more, it's only fair. I bill them for face-to-face meetings, why shouldn't I bill them for phone or email meetings?
That app just makes it easy to track time, down to the second. I show my clients that, too, so they know how accurate my timing is.
[–]salubrium 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Yeah, I use Toggl for the same on Linux (has an Android client but I don't use it). I handle about 6-9 different clients on a given day, which like I said is part of the issue. I also push clients towards logging tickets directly in Redmine if it's just a "I want new feature X" or "fix bug a" or something like that.
yeah, me too. just a running tab of accumulated time.
[–]jargoon 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Full-time Rails and iOS freelance developer, I probably clock 4-5 hours of billable time per day. The rest of the time is spent answering emails and doing "research" on Hacker News and Reddit. I also go to my local watering hole a few times a week, and I get a lot of leads from talking to regulars and random people there.
[–]WhistIer 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
Varies each day/week as it depends on how much work is coming in. I guess I do about five hours a day of paid work on average. I spend another couple of hours each day doing work related tasks (website, emails, client hunting). 30 minutes for lunch then an hour for gym at 3pm. I think exercise is almost as important as work, it refreshes me and gets me away from the screen!
Yes, I'm an Internet junkie but even so sometimes I feel like I can't stand to look at the screen for another minute because I've been in one spot for six hours and I just have to move my body. After I do jumping jacks and push-ups I feel so much better.
A few times I've had to take a break because my laptop was so hot I was worried it would overheat.
[–]grantmoore3d 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
When I have a well paying client that I work well with who doesn't bother me or ask for stupid changes, I work 6 hours a day. When I have annoying clients or a poorly paying project, I work up to 12 hours a day. It fluctuates wildly but I'm trying to get to 6 a day consistently.
[–]ultrafresh 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago
I'm not a "full-time freelancer" (as in, I have another full-time job), but I do freelancing on the side (web development).
Things like dishes, exercising, improving my website, etc. are pretty much last on the totem pole. They can wait, clients might not. If I have paid work, that goes straight to the top. That's what pays the bills. Second would be getting new clients, as they're the next ones to pay the bills.
Third would probably be bookkeeping, as that's how I actually get paid.
But, for me, it might be different. I've never been at a point where I have so much paid work that I'm unable to then do the "other stuff" (dishes, exercising, fun).
[–]daretoeatapeach[S] 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago
Yes, if I have an assignment I'll get right to it. But sometimes the work I do is monthly, so there's no limit to how much work I could do. I could work for two hours a day for the client, or ten, and he's still paying me the same. I'm not sure how many hours is appropriate in that context.
[–]zergytime 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
"I could work for two hours a day for the client, or ten, and he's still paying me the same."
This strikes me as a pretty major contract problem. Depending on what kind of work you do, you might want to look into an hourly contract. Monthly seems like one party or the other would always be getting screwed.
It's freelance publicity and social media consultation (I also do freelance writing, but that's per article work). I am new to freelancing, so it's possible there are problems I can't forsee.
(see the comment I left for Ultrafresh below for details on why I chose monthly)
[–]ultrafresh 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
So you're at a monthly rate instead of an hourly rate? I only do hourly, and for that purpose.
Do you have an average number of hours (or a min or max) in your contract?
[–]daretoeatapeach[S] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago*
No, I don't specify. I set it up this way because when I was charging hourly, I would put off doing the work when it was just five minutes here, ten minutes there, until I could do it all in bulk. I'm doing social media and publicity work, so that's often the case: post something to Twitter or respond to a single email. This way I've been timing myself and making sure I do at least an hour or two every day.
Also, I found that I end up doing a lot of coaching/consulting...writing a long email about why the client should have a Facebook page, or what Tumblr is, or why they need an Amazon link on their webpage. I wasn't charging for these, and didn't want to charge. Rather, I decided to set myself up as a resource they could go to at any time.
[–]toastworks 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
As a freelance audio video tech / filmmaker, I work 10 hour days on corporate jobs and 12 hour days on film sets.
[–]cowboy_k 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago
Not nearly enough. :(
[–]Phthnuh 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago
I work a 9 to 5 design job in an office building, the whole nine yards. I'm salaried, so I get paid the same no matter what. During my 8 hour day, 1 is lunch, leaving a possible 7 hours. During those 7 hours, I usually spend 1 or 2 in meetings, answering emails, phone calls, fixing the printer, etc, leaving approx 5 hours of actual design/layout/coding time that we can actually charge people for.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago
half an hours
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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]bishop1847 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]trippingupstairs 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]polyfractal 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]michaelbuddy 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]onyxrev 1 point2 points3 points ago*
[–]upsidedownfaceman 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]onyxrev 1 point2 points3 points ago
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[–]onyxrev 1 point2 points3 points ago*
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[–]doterobcn 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]Thinks_Like_A_Man 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]daretoeatapeach[S] 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]pyxlated 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]daretoeatapeach[S] 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]magnetic_couch 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]daretoeatapeach[S] 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]eyecite 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]salubrium 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]onyxrev 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]acpawlek 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]salubrium 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]ultrafresh 2 points3 points4 points ago
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[–]onyxrev 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]jargoon 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]WhistIer 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]daretoeatapeach[S] 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]grantmoore3d 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]ultrafresh 3 points4 points5 points ago
[–]daretoeatapeach[S] 2 points3 points4 points ago
[–]zergytime 1 point2 points3 points ago
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[–]daretoeatapeach[S] 1 point2 points3 points ago*
[–]toastworks 1 point2 points3 points ago
[–]cowboy_k 0 points1 point2 points ago
[–]Phthnuh 1 point2 points3 points ago
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